Heart Songs: an interview with composer and pianist Cassie To
How can deeply personal emotions and memories find a home in notes? In what ways can music invite listeners into scenes that reflect the most precious parts of being human? Heart Songs, Cassie’s To’s first solo album, is a collection of musical snapshots that invite us into the center of her home—moments of sound that celebrate moments in time, beloved relationships, and all the transient passing memories that form a rich life.
Cassie To is an award-winning composer of music for screen and concert stage. She has had works performed in the US and Europe, as well as her native Australia, and her music has been featured on ABC, SBS, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Stan. Heart Songs offers an intimate collection of pieces that celebrate Cassie’s love of melody and her masterful ability to layer sound. In speaking of her music, Cassie says,
“running through all of it is a thread of hope. That even when things feel uncertain, they can turn out okay, that sometimes these darker moments are a necessary moment in time.”
It is an honor to feature Cassie To and this lovely album on No Dead Guys.
At what age did you begin making music and what was your first instrument?
I started piano lessons at the age of 4 at Yamaha Music. I later picked up flute and saxophone during primary school. Piano was always my main instrument and I went through most of the AMEB grades and got my AmusA Diploma. Flute and Saxophone were always my ‘for fun’ instruments, playing in concert and jazz bands which was a nice contrast to a lot of the classical music I was playing on piano.
When did you start writing your own music and what was your first composition?
My first memory of composing was around age 8 – I remember I was learning about Mozart and how he started writing music at a very young age and so thought I could give it a go. I think the result was a very short piece for flute that didn’t really go anywhere so I think that was a bit of a false start! But I do remember trying quite early.
I started to take composing a little more seriously around high school in Year 9 music classes. I remember performing Joe Hisaishi’s piece ‘Hana-bi’ on piano for the annual school music festival and getting a lot of feedback on how beautiful the piece was. Seeing how emotionally people responded to that piece really inspired me to give composing a go and I started writing small piano pieces for friends and family members. So I would say my first composition was a solo piano piece and from memory it was called ‘Anne’ named after my best friend in High School at the time
I was impressed to read you have a successful career as a screen composer and that your music has been featured in film and TV productions for ABC, SBS, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Stan. When—and how—did you break into this competitive industry?
I've always had an interest in music for film since being introduced to the music of Joe Hisaishi by my parents, so it was always on my mind that this could be an avenue in music to pursue throughout school and university.
While studying a Bachelor of Music (Composition) at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, I was able to do some work experience at a music production house. After spending a year sitting in on their writing sessions, I sent them a piece I was working on for some feedback just for fun and it ended up suiting a documentary they were working on. That was how I got my first TV gig! From then on, I continued to work with them on various projects for television throughout university and after graduating. This was great as I was able to develop the skills necessary to write and produce music for screen, which is very different to writing music for live musicians.
I was able to build up my credits and experience, which then gave me the confidence to pitch myself to other directors, producers, and composer houses and expand my portfolio.
In addition to your screen compositions, your work has been performed by multiple concert ensembles, including a commission by Crouch End Festival Chorus in London to compose ‘Songs of the Reef’ - a piece for Orchestra, Chorus, Children’s choir and pre-recorded sounds of the Australian reef. What are the biggest differences between composing for screen and writing concert works?
Often writing for screen feels like a completely different art to writing for concert! When you're composing for screen, the music is always secondary to the pictures and dialogue, so your role is to support what's happening in the story and convey emotion without being too intrusive. A lot of the parameters are already dictated for you such as tone, structure, instrumentation, or pace and often times you have a reference or temp track to help guide you.
I think the biggest difference is that when I'm writing concert works, the music is the main focus. That might sound obvious, but it completely changes how I approach composition. There are more considerations around the audience's listening experience and the performers' experience, but also how the music conveys the story or emotion I want to share without the help of pictures or dialogue.
The music itself is quite different too. When composing for screen I’ll spend a lot of time at the computer, improvising ideas, using Virtual Instruments, sample packs and synths and often times there are a lot of "go-to" techniques I might rely on e.g. certain sounds, samples, techniques to create a specific emotion or shape a cue. With concert music there's a lot more focus on the music itself, whereas with film, a lot of those decisions—like whether to reuse a theme or develop it—depend on what's happening in the scene. In concert music I'm looking much more at the technical side: how and where to integrate different themes, where to develop them, how to keep the listening experience engaging. Often with concert music I like to start at the piano with a lot of improvisation and then flesh the ideas out in Sibelius. If I'm lucky enough there’s also time to workshop ideas with the performers
Personally, I find writing concert music more challenging because of this, and it takes longer. But I think it's also more considered as I'm sitting with the same piece of music for a long time, whereas with film you're often churning out a lot of music within a very short timespan and often don’t have the luxury to sit with it or workshop ideas.
Tell me a bit of how your passion for the environment forms a thread through many of your compositions.
I've been fortunate to spend a lot of my childhood in nature. My family have a small property north of Sydney and I grew up with a lot of furry friends, so I've always been fond of nature. If I didn't get into the Conservatorium, I was going to study animal conservation, so it was a real consideration as a career path
I think because of this appreciation of nature from a young age, I've always been aware of our natural world and the issues it faces. Threading environmental themes throughout my music not only allows me to share my appreciation but also do a small part in spreading awareness about the different issues the environment faces. Different approaches to this in my compositions include taking literal transpositions of bird calls, fish and whales as melody and thematic ideas, as well as more metaphorical approaches such as recreating textures, using environmental systems like wet and dry seasons, or the way animals communicate with each other as inspiration to structure pieces or develop melodic materials.
Sometimes the messages are hopeful, for example in Songs of the Reef the piece is centered around human noise pollution, but also ways we can change our ways and help the reef. Most recently I composed a piece as part of Omega Ensemble's CoLAB program which was inspired by the natural cycles of the Murray-Darling Basin as well as the unique bird species that reside there. That was probably the first piece that ended on more of a question mark/less hopeful note as to whether we will appreciate the natural world enough to protect it.
Congratulations on the release of your first album, Heart Songs. Given the broad scope of your compositions, why did you feel this intimate record was a fitting way to launch your recording career?
Heart Songs came about in 2024 when I was feeling quite a lot of doubt about my career and music. I had just turned 30 and was feeling unsure about this new decade. I'd been rejected from quite a few different classical opportunities, and I also felt at crossroads with these two compositional ‘personalities’ I had developed where one was very specific to film and one very specific to concert music. I think creating Heart Songs became a way to channel a lot of these feelings of anxiety about the future, but also write music without the limitations of a brief and feel like I was purely writing for myself and homing in on ‘my sound’.
It became an avenue for me to explore what my sound might be without putting it in a box of contemporary classical or film. It was also a way to push myself to learn new skills particular to recording which I had been putting off. So, in a lot of ways, although I found much of 2024 quite challenging, it was a good time to push myself to create this album and put something forward that felt like a true reflection of my sound, which seemed a fitting way to launch this side of my career.
I understand that Heart Songs draws deeply from your personal life. What can you tell us about the stories behind the songs?
There's a big mix of different songs in this album! About three of the pieces were composed before I had even thought of putting them together as an album. There are lullabies for my nephews, my bridal song and pieces that deal with feelings of anxiety and imposter syndrome. A few of the pieces, like “Open Heart” and “Hope”, were ways for me to explore different textures such as the saxophone and flute and use new recording & production techniques.
I think a lot of creatives can resonate with feelings of doubt, and creating this album was a way to work through that. The most obvious being “The Storm”, which always makes me think of those late-night ruminations on anxious thoughts and “After the Storm” which is reflective of that feeling after a big emotional moment or turbulence where the problem isn't necessarily solved, but there's a sense of acceptance of the situation and strength to push through.
This is the first time I've really laid a lot of my personal feelings out there so it's quite nerve-wracking! But I think it’s what makes the album quite special to me.
One of the things that impressed me about the pieces featured on this album is how deftly you create atmosphere through long phrases and masterful layering of musical tracks. What composers have most influenced you in these two areas?
Thank you!
I think I've drawn a lot of inspiration from a variety of modern classical composers who sit in this acoustic/organic and synth world. Some names that immediately come to mind are composers such as Ludovico Einaudi, Max Richter, and Ólafur Arnalds. Some Aussie composers that also come to mind are Nat Bartsch and Luke Howard.
What I find inspiring is that there are a lot of their works where they've been able to build emotion, whether it be tension, reflection, or drama, through the building of simple ideas and how they interweave acoustic and electronic elements.
I think a lot of that layering was a skill developed in composing for screen, and I do often find inspiration in film scores and film composers. Joe Hisaishi has always been an inspiration of mine, both from his film and concert works. Some other film composers who also occupy spaces in the concert space who I also find inspiration from are Nico Muhly, Nicholas Britell and Dustin O’Halloran. I think film scores have a great way of building anticipation and feeling through layering or creating a space/atmosphere which can easily translate to concert or studio works.
I found “For Oscar” and “For Max” to be the most intimate pieces on the album. Who are Oscar and Max and why did you feel solo piano the best way to capture your relationship with these two people?
Oscar and Max are two of my little nephews!
Oscar was the first grandchild/nephew of the family. When Oscar was born I remember there was a lot of joy during that period. He was the first baby in the family, the easing of lockdowns after a long COVID, and it felt like a very warm time with my family. I remember sitting down at the piano with these feelings and the piece kind of wrote itself. It is a lullaby for Oscar, but also a reflection of this happy moment in my life with my family.
Max is the second nephew in the family who’s mum is my older sister. When Max was about three months old, my sister and her family moved in with us for about ten months while their house was being renovated. Living with a newborn at first seemed like a daunting experience, but we all easily figured out a routine and became one big family. I feel very privileged to have been able to witness all the milestones with my sister and Max and it brought us closer together. While Max lived with us, I had an upright piano in the house, so it seemed fitting to write him a lullaby. The piece came easily and often when he would finish bath time I would play him his song before he went to bed.
Solo piano was an easy choice for these two pieces. In my mind they were always going to be lullabies and I wanted to write a piece I could easily play for them. They often spend a lot of time with me in my studio sitting next to me and playing on my keyboard, so it's nice to share this with them.
What can you tell me about “For Us”—a beautiful, reverent piece that ends without resolution?
“For Us” is the piece I wrote for my bridal song and you could say is the first "love song" I've ever written. I was struggling to pick a song for our wedding and thought I would give writing something a go. I think I wrote a different piece initially which I didn't like, and then on my second attempt “For Us” just kind of came out. Originally it was just solo piano and I decided to add strings to it for the album.
Although written as my bridal song, “For Us” has always been a reflection of my relationship with my husband. I don't like to get too wordy or soppy as neither of us are big on huge gestures or words, but I felt I could convey a lot of how I was feeling about us through this piece. To me it's about the quiet moments of contentment and happiness I feel when I'm with him and being able to be true to myself. Yes, there are big moments and gestures, but it always comes back to these small, happy moments. I think the open ending is fitting and wasn’t something I was conscious of when I wrote it, but on reflection I feel marriage is just the start and we have many more memories and moments to share together.
Will you be publishing any piano sheet music for this music? If so, where might we purchase it?
At the moment there are no plans, although it's definitely something to think about for the future! I'd love to do something with Amica or the Australian Music Centre, so stay tuned.
What current or future plans are you most excited about?
I'm just about to start a television series with friend/collaborator/co-composer Emma Greenhill, which I'm excited about! I'm hoping to do more in the drama/scripted space, so it's exciting to be building my portfolio and hopefully working on some new projects later in the year.
At the moment I have a few small personal projects bubbling away and am hoping to write some new music for concert as well as rework some existing pieces for choirs and ensembles. This is a little daunting as there's no guarantee of a performance, but I'm excited to push myself and be more proactive in creating opportunities for myself rather than waiting for them to come to me.
And finally, I'm so excited to finally have this album out in the world! It was originally meant to come out in 2025 and there were a few setbacks, but I'm so excited it's finally out and I can clear some headspace to think about what I might want to write next. I'm excited for people to hear it and possibly organise some live performances of the works, so stay tuned! Hopefully this year can see me doing more live playing.
What advice can you offer young people who wish to make a career for themselves as composers?
Patience and perseverance—which is something I'm still trying to get better at myself, particularly the patience part!
Being a composer can be really challenging and a lot of the time it's all on you to motivate yourself to write music, sharpen your technique, further your learning, reach out to potential collaborators and learn how to essentially operate as a small business. Because of this I think you need a bit of grit and determination to not get too down in the quiet times, or feel like your music isn't worthy if you don't fit a particular mould or win commissions and jobs.
I've often been reminded by composers more established and older than me that it takes time to build up a portfolio and career (many years!), and I think that's a really good thing to keep in mind. It can be easy to be impatient when we live in a world full of instant gratification and everyone's highlights on show. It's easy to feel like you're falling behind, something I felt a lot at the start of putting this album together, so reminding yourself that you're in it for the long game is good and also reminding yourself how far you've come can be comforting when you feel doubt.
Lastly, I'd say find the music you want to write and find the things that excite you and keep you engaged and creative. Whether that be exploring and recording different sounds, sharing messages through your music, honing in on specific compositional techniques, writing in different genres etc. I think it's so important to find what drives you to be creative and share your music and I often think these are the pieces that speak to people the most. When writing music is your day job, it can be exhausting to be creative and spend time on the things that matter to you and not necessarily the music that pays the bills, so I think it's super important to keep finding the things that interest you and write the music you want to write. I think you'll find these are the pieces that grab people the most and you'll be a better composer for it.
Cassie To’s music is about producing emotional connections. Her sound is refined but textured, with each composition carefully crafted to appeal to the rawest elements of humanity – emotion, memory and feeling. That way her songs are neither esoteric nor inaccessible instead they engage with a wide audience, whether pop orientated or academic and classically trained.
Her education at Sydney’s Conservatorium of Music (Bachelor of Music, Honours in Composition) combined with her musical influences has given her the passion and expertise to compose across different styles and genres. Her recent work blends classical technique with contemporary composition, blending symphonic phrases with experimental and environmental soundscapes. She has composed for a variety of ensembles including Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, Adelaide Wind Orchestra, West Australian Symphony Orchestra, Ensemble Offspring and Melbourne Youth Orchestra. She has also had works performed internationally in the USA and Europe. Most recently she was commissioned by Crouch End Festival Chorus (London) to compose ‘Songs of the Reef’ - a piece for Orchestra, Chorus, Children’s choir and pre-recorded Reef sounds
Cassie To’s adaptability and creativity has seen her write scores for film, advertisements television series and documentaries. Her portfolio includes work for ABC, SBS, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Stan.
Cassie is a devoted environmentalist and her passion for conservation and telling stories through nature is rippled through her work. Her work has been nominated for awards such as the APRA Screen Music Awards for Best music in a short film, documentary and kid series and was awarded ‘Gold Award’ winner at the Mindfield Film Festival (2019) for Best Original Score for her work on the Feature Film ‘Benefited’. She is currently releasing her first album of modern classical music with the Australian record label Amica Records.